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Agenda and minutes

Venue: Waltham Forest Town Hall

Contact: David Symonds  020 8496 4344 Email:

No. Item




Apologies for absence were received from Sasha White, Samantha De Lotz, David Renton, Flash Bristow, Bill Blair, Julie Dixon, and Councillor N. Buckmaster




MINUTES (3 mins)

To approve the minutes of the meeting held on 11th February 2009.


The minutes of the meeting held on 11th February 2009 were confirmed with the following amendments:


Minute 27 – it was suggested that amendments should be available to all members of the meeting so they could have continuity.


Cllr. Asghar’s name was missing from the minutes – to add.


Minute 30- London Rail issues: It was noted that the minutes were too brief on this topic and there was an extensive debate over this issue.


Richard Pout would supply a paragraph which would more accurately reflect this item.



LONDON BUS SERVICES UPDATE (30 mins including questions)

The representative from London Buses is requested to provide an update on current issues, to include:


3.1       97 Bus Tour


3,2       212 Issue (Double Deckers)


3.3             Stratford City Shopping Centre- routes extended update


3.4             W15


3.5             General updates and items




Chris Hall gave an update on the issues with regard to a number of bus routes in Walthamstow


3.1 Route 97


Members expressed concern that the 97 Bus tour should have taken place however it was noted that TfL were not yet able to agree to this.  Chris explained that the 3G proposals were a priority and that an announcement would be made on the scheme in due course.  The bus tour would then be able to take place.



3.2 Route 212 issue (Double Deckers)- Approximately one year ago, TfL were investigating whether double deckers should be used on route 212. Chris Hall advised that these were deemed to be very cost effective compared with single deckers.


A number of residents were present at the meeting and expressed their concerns to the London Buses representative, maintaining that double deckers on this route caused noise and pollution. In addition, these buses damaged pavements on a regular basis as they had to mount pavements in order to get through certain roads on the route.


In addition, residents present asked TfL to provide evidence that the double decker service was necessary and viable. Chris Hall re-iterated TfL’s view that the double deckers on this route were considered to be the most viable and cost effective buses available. Neil Bullen added that the consultation period on the 212 route would end on 12th June 2009 and it was proposed that a report would be submitted by him to the Cabinet Member, Councillor Wheeler.


Councillor Meiszner appreciated concerns raised by residents on this issue. He asked that trees and height of the buses should be investigated.


Roger Gilham said that the use of single deckers could be cost efficient if they ran more frequently. At Primrose Hill a double decker was mounting on the pavement which was really dangerous for passengers. He suggested the issue of safety should enjoy priority and if single deckers were more expensive to run, funds should be found for that purpose.



Action: Neil Bullen to discuss the issue with the cabinet member, Councillor Wheeler, before drafting the Council’s response to TfL London Buses.


Councillor Jovcic enquired whether figures could be provided relating to the number of accidents caused by double deckers and claims made to TfL in such situations.


Action: Chris Hall to investigate if accident information can be provided.



Action: Chris Hall to provide a copy of the report outlining TfL’s need for double deckers and investigate concerns raised about the noise and vibration caused in the 20 mph zone, where buses were also damaging pavements.


3.3  Stratford City Shopping Centre- It was proposed that Route 97 would be extended to Stratford City via Olympic Legacy Road. This was a long term project and should be put in place by 2011, just before the Olympics.


Action: Neil Bullen would be consulted by TFL  within 3 weeks.




The problems identified with this route had been raised with Caroline Pidgeon, London Assembly Member and the Chair.  ...  view the full minutes text for item 38.


MOBILITY AND ACCESS ISSUES (15 mins including questions)

To include an update on the Mobility Forum held on 23rd March 2009  (minutes attached)


The Committee Officer wrote to Community Transport following the Mobility Forum on 18th March 2009, in order to express concerns and hope officers would meet Helen to ensure the problems with transport will be avoided in the future. David said that each meeting had particular topics for discussion. Unfortunately the Chair and Vice Chair of the Mobility Forum were unable to attend this meeting but intended to do so in future.


The Chair stated that the Mobility Forum would in future meet three weeks before Transport Liaison Consultative Group meetings.


Councillor Wheatley noted the difficulties at the Forum meeting in March 2009 and hoped that these problems could be avoided in future.





OLYMPIC UPDATE INCLUDING HALL FARM CURVE (20 mins including questions)


Neil Bullen provided the committee with a report on the Hall Farm Curve, as part of the case for the Chingford to Stratford Rail service.  The timescale was lengthy but it was hoped that this would be completed by 2014/2016. A business case was in the process of being made.


There remained a lot of uncertainty about how much this project would cost. In 2002 it was estimated to cost about £14 million, but since then it was estimated to be substantially more than this. It was stated that the Chingford to Stratford line was important to Waltham Forest and other London boroughs. Tfl and the new Mayor gave their support in this.


Councillor Meiszner asked whether a survey could be conducted in the borough, which would demonstrate public support for the Hall Farm Curve. Neil responded thattechnical and lobbying work needed to be undertaken in the first instance.

The major cost would involve signalling, putting down rail tracks and building a new station.


The Vice-Chair asked if a business case could be submitted before 2014 as part of the Stratford City Plan and asked for an upgrade on Leyton tube station.


Roger Gillham and other Members were very encouraged with the report and emphasised that the the Lea Bridge station and HFC projects mentioned in the report did not depend on each other, they should be taken forward as separate elements. Lea Bridge station should also have disabled access. He asked whether a Sub-Group could be formed, which would provide Transport User input.





David Shepherd suggested carrying out a feasibility study about the likely traffic on the new line. He said it would be useful to know whether the station would be close enough for people who intended to use it or an access line should be made. He also asked whether it was possible to talk to the operators of Chingford station and rationalise the cleaning of railway stock.


Ivor Chapman noted that the report made no mention of the Olympics and felt this was very important.


Richard Pout advised that a report on this matter had been undertaken seven years ago and added that pressure needed to be made by Members and officers so that the projects would be realised.


David Hecker felt that the report should be re-issued showing a date stamp which could then act as a correct means to track progress of the scheme.





LONDON OVERGROUND UPDATE (15 mins including questions)

The representative from London Overground is requested to provide an update on current issues.



The representative of Overground was not present to provide an update. However Richard Pout raised concerns about the Barking-Gospel Oak Line and the timetables.

He also noted that there were difficulties about access, when new rolling stock would be delivered and electrification of the BGO line.  A local meeting would be held on 20th May and he asked representatives to support the Early Day Motion 446 being discussed in Parliament at the present time.


He also expressed concern about the state of Leyton Midland station and stated that the this was very unpleasant.


Action: Committee Officer/Neil Bullen to liaise with officers from Environmental Health.




RAIL SERVICES UPDATE (15 mins including questions)

The representative from National Express East Anglia is requested to provide an update on current issues.


7.1       Update on the removal of rubbish and dirt accumulated at and around Highams Park Station.




No representative from the Rail operators was present.


David Shepherd agreed to take photographs of the rubbish at Highams Park station.  Chemicals cause allergy and pollution. The issue should be raised with Environmental Health.


Roger Gillham advised that passengers suffer from pigeon droppings at Highams Park Station. He would like an update on the next meeting to see if this environmental health hazard could be investigated.


Action: Rail Services operator at Highams Park station to provide an update at the next meeting on the pigeon droppings health hazard.


Oyster card- the extension into Wood Street, Highams Park and Chingford was to be delayed until January 2010. Councillor Wheeler met officers from National Express one year ago and it was anticipated that this should have been  introduced in June 2009.


Queens Road station pedestrian link- this was needed. Neil Bullen advised that court proceedings took place on 8th May 2009 and an injunction had been applied for against the Family Housing Association.


Action: Neil Bullen to update the Group at the next meeting on the court case.



LONDON UNDERGROUND UPDATE (15 mins including questions)

The representative from London Underground is requested to provide an update on current issues.


8.1       Major upgrade of Leyton Station- when is this to be expected?



Lucy Webster provided an update on current issues.


Lucy talked about the planned 24-hour strike on Victoria line on 21st May 2009. She expressed London Underground’s  apology for the strike, which she said would be so severe that no service would be able to operate on Victoria line all day on 21st May. She explained that LU had sought to seek agreement on various issues in dispute with the RMT Union, but the Union would still want the strike to go ahead. She also explained that the strike was called by RMT because LU had dismissed a train operator due safety reasons relating to train doors.  A question was raised about the possibility of replacement bus services and  Lucy suggested to check the website before the journey.


Lucy said that the announcement on the trains at Blackhorse Road station would be updated to the correct information with effect from 15th June.


Leyton Station Upgrade- Lucy explained that there was a modernisation programme at  this station.  CCTV was updated and help points were introduced.

Leyton was not included in the major works upgrade programme.


Councillor Meiszner stated that the ‘countdown’ information on the Victoria Line was not as accurate as the other tube lines and asked for the reason. Lucy explained that different lines had different signalling equipments therefore there was a degree of inconsistency but this would be investigated.


Action: Lucy Webster to investigate about the countdown problems on the Victoria Line.


Councillor Meiszner said that Victoria line had shut early last year to avoid weekend closures but it would be shut again for the coming long weekend. Lucy explained that LU had stopped weekday closures and tried to avoid closures when major events occurred. Councillor Meiszner asked whether LU was behind schedule with upgrading works. Lucy answered that the programme was very intensive and on schedule.


Laurence Wortley and other Members of the Group raised their strong concerns about the safety of the Leyton station and suggested that the side exit should be open when the station would become overcrowded, ie. in the evenings when people come home. In particular, concern was expressed that this was not on an equal footing with Snaresbrook station where there were more entrances. Laurence also expressed concern that there was no Oyster reader there. Lucy responded that LU adhered to safety considerations  at Leyton station and assured the Group that they would not allow the station to be unsafe and if overcrowding occurred, TFL would delay trains to allieviate problems. However this did not satisfy the Group who wished to take this matter further within TFl, requesting re-consideration of this matter. The Group wanted to see a copy of the station's evacuation and safety audit procedure.


David Shepherd suggested seeking legal advice and an adjudicator body to decide whether the safety of that station was appropriate.




Committee Officer to request information regarding the safety of Leyton Station from Lucy Webster. This would include the safety evacuation procedure and safety  ...  view the full minutes text for item 43.


CYCLING AND WALKING (10 mins including questions)


Gerhard Weiss felt that the roads were improved but the cycling track facilities were not and there was no system to regularly maintain them. He felt that the cyclist felt that the system needed to be changed because the current situation may put people off cycling. He felt happy to provide a case study and wanted to know who would look into it. Members did express some concern about the standard of cycling in the borough, eg going through red lights or riding on the pavement.


Gerhard expressed concern that the Cycling and Walking item had been placed at the end of the agenda and not allowing sufficient time for discussion.  However, the Chair advised that Cycling and Walking would be the first item on the Agenda for the next meeting.


Action: Gerhard Weiss would send the Vice-Chair a case study on cycling and the Vice chair would investigate this with the Cycling Officer.





David Shepherd asked whether the parent and child and disabled parking facilities at car parks.  The Chair advised that parking in car parks maintained by supermarkets is a private site, and therefore this could be raised with the Planning Committee.





To be agreed at Annual Council on 21st May 2009.


The next meeting would be held on 14th July 2009 (7pm).